Adrastus

I don't understand Matt, the differences are obvious but what you're saying is just come up with a different name for it? Naming it something else, solves nothing. We use this term because it gets the point across very easily. Take the word gay for example. It gets the point across very quickly, its well understood. "I am Gay" , ok, he likes men. Compared to "I am a male, who yearns soley for the attention of other males both mentally and physically" (Kinda get the point?, and yes i understand there are other ways to phrase that sentence)

I am "Straight-acting".. we aren't saying we are straight.. we aren't saying we want to be straight. I'm fairly "straight-acting" but i wouldn't want to be straight.

People use classification and these labels to choose friends, find loves, and the people they don't want to talk too, just so happens some people are more open minded then others. Personally I would still talk to IMB if he acted femme, and i'd talk to bulvox if he acted straight. But in some cases.. these labels are what turn us the other way.
Whats the point of searching for something in someone to fall in love with, when there is nothing there. (Example : Females, why would I bother living my life with a female if i knew i wouldn't be happy)

Only way to do this, is to make everyone "femme" or to make everyone "straight-acting" (or anything in between, or anything more exotic) and seeing as how this will never happen, this seems to be a rather pointless discussion. I won't change my habits/mannerisms just because someone wants all gays to be equal. This inter-orientation fighting is pointless, all in all.. we are all gay, and just as everyone else.. we have preferences as to the way we act, and the way we yearn for other people.

This just in
Not all gay men are feminine. Not all straight men are masculine.
Not all Lesbians are Butch. And not all Straight women are feminine.

What words we use to call them is indifferent, Yes i agree some are more harsh then others, and some of them i don't approve of, however this is life, life is not fair, work with it, not against it.

I don't believe there is much more I can say on the subject. I can see you aren't happy with it, but. The distinctions are clear, why fight it?

If you want to change the names of things, change your own, don't try to change anyone else's.

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reminiscence

I can see where you're coming from. I mean all you're asking is that people don't HATE flammers, not that we all become them. And your ''straight acting'' statement is completely correct. Even calling heteros Straight is discrimination against gays. It's like become divided into ''Gay people'' and ''Good people''

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Frankie

Being gay is what connects all (or most) of us GTF members, so why don't we just stick together and support each other instead of quarreling.

I can't remember reading that someone here in this forum wrote that he hates more feminime guys.
But it's true that there are many gay guys who prefer "straight acting" guys as a boyfriend. I'm gay so I like guys but that doesn't mean that I hate femme guys at all.
Most white guys have white women and most black guys have black women but that doesn't mean that they are racists and hate people with another skin colour. (that was just an example and I didn't intend to offend anyone. If this sounds racist I'm sorry, wasn't my intention.)
I am what you call "straight acting" but I don't pretend to be straight....it's just the way I am. If I would act feminime, that would be pretending someone who I'm not (acting) but that's just me. My hobbies are what you would describe as "straight" and I don't practice these things to pretend someone I'm not. Being gay doesn't mean that I have to play with Barbie just to fit a stereotype. "gay" is just sexual orientation to me and not a lifestyle. Everyone has his own preferences and that's what makes each of us different.

When someone introduces himself on this forum and he writes that he's "straight acting" is just to let the other visualize how they are because we can't see them actually. I don't think that they intended to judge others who aren't "straight acting". The only purpose was to introduce themselves. Do you think that if someone writes that they've got brown hair, they want to say that they hate blondes?

Everyone is different and you have to accept that. I accept it too and don't judge someone by his behaviour.

Let's make love not war
peace

Matt Rools You

The nomenclature is the problem. I'm not saying you are straight. I'm saying it perpetuates a bad stereotype when you must call yourself 'straight-acting' to differentiate you from flaming queens.

For the record, I don't want you to change being masc. (as opposed to femme.) You should be proud to be who you are. I am agreeing with IMB when he says:

kryptkeeper51

I get what IMB is saying. And i don't really find people who say "im gay, but i act straight" really insulting. But it's kinda like a black guy saying "im black, but i act white!".

All im saying is it's not nessasarry to say you act straight. Just say Femme or masculant.

on another note i do get kind of annoyed when someone says they prefer femme's and someone else has to say " Well if i wanted someone who acted femminine id date a girl ". It's kind of like saying femme's are not as gay as someone else or something.

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DubbLYU

well, that's because a lot of us associate femininity with women. therefore, if we find men attractive then the thought of dating a feminine man is like dating a woman with male genitals. that's the point they're trying to get across.

and i still disagree with the statement that having sex with another man is feminine. not every gay man takes it up the poop chute. but, is the fact that he still sleeps with men still considered feminine? is any affection between two males considered feminine? well, then, i guess that any time your dad, your grandpa, or uncle joe gives you a hug or a kiss. he is sacrificing his masculinity, right? i think not!

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Impeach My Bush

Yes, we know, and that's offensive and backwards.
Yeah, because the love between two gay men and the way the show affection is just like hugging your uncle.

There is clearly a huge difference between two men having sex and two relatives hugging. The fact you consider the two analogous is revealing, though I'm not sure what of.

DubbLYU

that is not offensive or backwards. it's simply preference. why would you date or sleep with somebody that you don't necessarily find attractive?

yes, i understand that it is different. however, you're associating affection between two men as feminine. sex is a form of affection. just because traditionally the majority of the time a women is the one sleeping with a man does not mean that once another man sleeps with another man that he has taken the female role. that is ridiculous!

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Impeach My Bush

"If I wanted to date a woman, I'd be straight"

Is offensive and backwards. I could come up with something equally offensive and stupid and maybe you'd understand:

"If I wanted to date a straight man, I'd be a woman."

No more ridiculous than calling a man a "femme" because he likes pink or whatever. I've explained this before, sex is the only real area where gender roles matter so my assertion stands logically.

reminiscence

it IS quite sexist. More woman than men can cook WELL, but that doesn't make cooking feminine. Woman are cleaner for the most part too, but being tidy isn't feminine. And more men than woman play contact sports, but that doesn't make the woman who do masculine. Its just breaking away from a stereotype.

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Adrastus

Do you have that option of just.. making yourself a woman ?... Do you actually want that? If so there are surgical operations which you can undertake.. help yourself by all means. Perhaps then we can end this stupid , ridiculous discussion on how greedy you're making "Femme gay men" out to be.

In this case... you'd be a man either way, no sex change.. therefore.. that argument isn't applicable.

Also thats, just another way of explaining something, our PREFERENCE! Our logic, stop bashing us, its getting you no where. (Note: I made preference bold, because no one seems to understand that word.)

Preference - that which is preferred; choice: His preference is vanilla, not chocolate.



Btw frankie.. well put !

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reminiscence

But it IS just preference. It just means I'm not attracted to guys who act like woman. I have no problem with them, and would do them , but its the same thing as me not wanting to date a REALLY sporty eccentric guy. I just dont wanna spend the rest of my life with sum1 who has a personality completely different to mine.

The idea of a gay relationship being feminine is pretty stupid I think(no offense) but the whole point of a gay relationship is that its two men. Ne pas de women. It'd be like if someone asked you and your hubbie ''which one of you is ''the wife''?''

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Impeach My Bush

I respectfully suggest you refrain from involving yourself in debate in the future. If you can't even grasp the point I'm making when I advertise with it big red words (Those words being "My stupid and ignorant statement") I was making an analogy to show you how stupid the statement "If I wanted a woman, I'd be straight" you shouldn't carry on with this.

Anyway, nice to see you think sexual orientation is changeable at will. Good going.

See, that's fine. You can have preferences. I just don't see the point in kicking a guy off of the date-able list just because he's in to Madonna and shopping or whatever.

OK I'm going to spell this out:

A woman is supposed to have sex with a man

When a man has sex with a man, he is taking on the woman's role

ergo, the man is following feminine behaviour patterns.

I don't see why my statement is so controversial. It's like you're all scared of the insinuation that you aren't masculine, is this forums membership comprised of the High School Football Team or something? Typical masculine insecurity.

Adrastus

Well i had something else typed out.. 2 things i would like to say, one of them i should have said a long time ago.

1) I was being sarcastic IMB . . . If you think I couldn't understand what you were trying to do, you are a fool.

2) Good for you Impeach Your Bush. I hope your opinion, towards people who aren't like you, serves you well.

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Impeach My Bush

I never said I'm not masculine. Masculinity and femininity aren't a dichotomy, they're a continuum.

Anyway, what other conclusion was I supposed to draw from "Having sex with a man does not make me feminine!!!!"?

Well now you understand why your argument was...Umm, crap.

Yes, I hate your lifestyle sooo much. Stop putting words in my mouth.